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Occasionally I wandered in where I was not wanted and gave truthful answers.
Sometimes I even did it deliberately. A little disruption now can prevent disaster later.

Religion and popular culture

This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E1653656682

Conversation with Juliaki


NeoWayland - well, there is Battlestar Galactica, but it is in reruns until January
the new version

Juliaki - given that I haven't seen it at all, that might be an option if it is any good

it is pretty good
Edward James Olmos
Commander Adama has regular arguments with the President

would you believe I never saw the original series, too?
grins

and the Cylons can appear human
well, the original series had it's moments, but sort of degenerated pretty quickly

typical 1960s type of stuff, eh?

hee hee hee
was late 1970s
about a notch or two below the writing of the original Star Trek series

d'oh
is it true that it was some sort of Mormon plot?

hadn't heard that one
new version is interesting on that point though
humanity is polytheistic, and the cylons are monotheistic

http://www.michaellorenzen.com/galactica.html

reading that page now

granted, the quality of the site isn't much to think about...just the first one I grabbed, though

um, the book of mormon stole the tribes thing from the Bible as I recall

I have no idea...just had heard about the Mormon-BG connection years ago, but don't know enough about either to comment

have an aunt who married a mormon, and have a cousin who is mormon

not surprising given the section of the country where you live
grins

this is a little silly, the Bible had these themes before the Mormons did
Moses

all one big religion, IMO

can probably make an argument going back before that too. Pretty sure there is something in Egyptian that I am not remembering. think there was something with gilgamesh too

very few original themes in religion out there

well, that sort of stands to reason doesn't it?
I mean, technically society gets between the individual and the Divine
so religion is a way of overcoming those barriers
hmm, beliefnet has a thing too
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16633_1.html

and if it is all part of that "great divine mystery", then it's all about the same stuff anyhow

pardon, but I am not sure I accept that

why not?

Because I think that religion can be perverted by human action
and when that happens, I don't think there is anything particularly divine about that

I think all religions are perverted by human action, because it is the human-ness that makes it religion and not merely divinity...but I don't see that as a "big bad thing" either

maybe it is part of my prejudice but I have a hard time thinking of fundies having a connection to the Divine
this is a great discussion
can I swipe it for TPY?

sure, but let me toss in one more comment on it.... how did the fundies end up getting life put into their bodies?

see, I think that fundamentalism is a rejection of the Divine rather than a celebration

but when someone becomes a fundie, does that mean the divine spark that lives within them disappears?
regardless of whether they embrace it or recognize it, does it cease to exist?

no, but I think it gets buried with the dirty laundry

but that doesn't mean it isn't there
and besides, some of the gods themselves would qualify as fundies

I don't think the spark disappears, no, but I think they do turn away from the spark. There is something very human about rejecting a part of yourself
and yes, some of the gods do qualify as fundamentalist
but is it the god essence, or the godmask that we choose to perceive them through?

the divine in all forms, even the forms that we may not like, has the right/need to be honored...so fundies exist to honor gods that they may not believe in, but by being fundies, they honor those gods regardless
I believe those are one in the same

I disagree with you

who creates the "godmask"?

humans

are you sure?

yes

how does a human create?
how do we have the ability to create?

it is in our nature, and yes, I know that begs the question
we want to impose our own order on the universe

see, I don't believe humans have the ability to create....we manipulate
but can we create? not in my viewpoint, no
even if we manipulate the "godmask" into something we can work with, see, and use, it is still driven and brought into being through that divine spark
without a divine spark, it couldn't exist

see, I think that is just begging the question from the other end
"it is God's will"

there is nothing in creation that doesn't contain something of its creator
nah, will has nothing to do with it
in fact, will can get in the way of creation

maybe I am missing something, but it seems that your solution reduces us all to puppets

not at all... a person does not need a puppet in order to exist... but the gods need us to be able to be who/what they are
they wouldn't cease to exist, but they would cease to be some of what they are, if that makes sense

I don't like being manipulated, maybe that is what is getting in the way here

well, you chose to be born, didn't you?

it is one of my working assumptions, yes

were you manipulated into that?

don't think so, but my memories of That Side are a little limited

something to think about...if you weren't manipulated into that, then are you being manipulated here....or if you were manipulated into that, is it possible not to be manipulated here?

"I will not serve"

suit yourself

interesting response

smiles
you like?

it seems to work for you

there you go, then

do you serve?

but of course

who?

shrugs
does it matter for you?

not directly no

well, there you are, then
serve is a unique word with some very unique definitions

how so?

one definition of it is "to meet the requirements of"
do you serve?

under that definition, I do
but the quote was from Milton's Paradise Lost

another definition is to fulfill a purpose of being required by Law
Milton wrote Paradise Lost, and then his wife died and he wrote Paradise Found
another definition of serve is "to provide food".... as a kitchen witch, there's no way I could not live that
certainly I also enjoy the definition of serve as "to put the ball into play"...that's part of what I do quite often

do you serve in the same way that Milton meant it?

since I'm on earth and alive at the moment, I see that as a tour of duty of sorts...and to serve means "to do a term of duty"
never talked to Milton, so who knows how he meant it...writers are such fickle beings

are you familiar with the context?

if I remember right, it's the whole discussion with Satan before he gets ejected... it was a rather lousy piece of literature, so I only skimmed it when it was required reading

you do remember right

the whole "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven"
me, I do both
grins

yep
to get the other context though, you have to go with the idea that we make our own heaven and hell. Which is something that Milton didn't make especially clear

and something that I don't fully agree with...I think other people have the ability to manipulate heavens and hells that people choose to embrace

that is why it turns on the choice
thus
"I will not serve"

ask anyone who believes they are going through a personal hell if they chose it, and I guarantee you they'll say no more often than not
most people in the world don't believe in choice...and if offered choice, they reject it

agreed


Conversations with her are usually thought provoking.

Posted: Mon - October 24, 2005 at 07:53 AM

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